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 Post subject: Shame is not the issue...
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2007 4:19 pm 
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Joined: May 09, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 928
Location: Ontario
This is taken from a thread on exChristian. Someone received this poem via email and shared it for discussion. I share my responses in the following posts.


WRITTEN BY A 15 yr. Old SCHOOL KID IN ARIZONA :

New Pledge of Allegiance (TOTALLY
AWESOME) !

Since the Pledge of Allegiance
And
The Lord's Prayer
Are not allowed in most
Public schools anymore
Because the word 'God' is mentioned....
A kid in Arizona wrote the attached
NEW School prayer :
Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.

Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.
We can get our condoms and ! birth co ntrols,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen

If you aren't ashamed to do this,
Please pass this on.
Jesus said,
'If you are ashamed of me,
I will be ashamed of you before my Father.'

Not ashamed. Pass this on.

_________________
~RSM
P.S. I do my own thinking.
visit our Website
Website includes resources for deconversion & links to secular groups.


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 Post subject: Re: Shame is not the issue...
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2007 4:29 pm 
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Joined: May 09, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 928
Location: Ontario
Quote:
WRITTEN BY A 15 yr. Old SCHOOL KID IN ARIZONA :

New Pledge of Allegiance (TOTALLY
AWESOME) !

Since the Pledge of Allegiance
And
The Lord's Prayer
Are not allowed in most
Public schools anymore
Because the word 'God' is mentioned....
A kid in Arizona wrote the attached
NEW School prayer :
Now I sit me down in school
Where praying is against the rule
For this great nation under God
Finds mention of Him very odd.
If Scripture now the class recites,
It violates the Bill of Rights.
And anytime my head I bow
Becomes a Federal matter now.


Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
The law is specific, the law is precise.
Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.

For praying in a public hall
Might offend someone with no faith at all.
In silence alone we must meditate,
God's name is prohibited by the state.

We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks..
They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
It's 'inappropriate' to teach right from wrong,
We're taught that such 'judgments' do not belong.
We can get our condoms and ! birth co ntrols,
Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
No word of God must reach this crowd.

It's scary here I must confess,
When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
Should I be shot; My soul please take!
Amen

If you aren't ashamed to do this,
Please pass this on.
Jesus said,
'If you are ashamed of me,
I will be ashamed of you before my Father.'

Not ashamed. Pass this on.


Excuse me. There's not a lot in there to be ashamed about. But I refuse to lie. There is so much falsehood in that crap that I wouldn't pass it on for that reason alone. 1. I've seen some version of that specific email before. 2. I seriously doubt that it was written by a 15-year-old. Seems I remember reading that it wasn't but I'm not absolutely sure anymore. 3. And even if it was, no one has a problem with anyone bowing their head for a word of silent prayer in a meditative moment. (Of course, if that Christian disobeys the Bible and makes a show of this head-bowing as in insisting that everybody honour and respect it with a moment of silence, then people will have problems with it.) 4. Quoting the Bible in the proper context and mood probably does not get the law on your case. For example, in a history of ancient literature class it should be acceptable as one example along with Homer, etc.The same should apply in a religious studies class where the Christian religion is studied along side other religions. 5. I'd need it on far stronger authority than this ditty that there is a state in the union that prohibits the use of the word God, as per the line God's name is prohibited by the state.

I went through it an bolded the parts I consider to be either falsehoods or half-truths. Some remain that I find disgusting but perhaps they don't count as half-truths so I let them be.

The statement about not teaching right from wrong seems like a half truth, too. While the labels right and wrong may not be attached, the emphasis is on providing information regarding what behaviour produces what consequences so that people can make informed decisions. If you don't want to be a parent saddled with kids at age 19, you know what you should and should not do, right? Okay, then live that way. Our society seems to value not having kids before age 25, but it also values freedom of choice. Thus it does not attach labels and judgments of right and wrong on behaviours that lead to parenthood at age 19. Whoever wrote that poem does not note this subtle distinction. They only take offense at the crude out-dated rules that have been chucked for better ones.

I would guess the Ten Commandments are allowed to be used as one example of ancient law or belief. But understandably not displayed on public propety at public expense where other religions are not given equal space.

_________________
~RSM
P.S. I do my own thinking.
visit our Website
Website includes resources for deconversion & links to secular groups.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov 09, 2007 4:40 pm 
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Site Admin

Joined: May 09, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 928
Location: Ontario
Someone suggested I'm referring to the broader theme of Christians crying persecution. My response:

It didn't occur to me to put it that way but I find it ridiculous the way they always talk about not being ashamed of the gospel. As though there were something to be ashamed about! I just don't get it why one would be ashamed. If the gospel is right and true and noble then there's nothing to be ashamed about. If it's wrong and ignoble, then by all means GET OUT! Groveling around in the dirt about shame is STUPID in my book.

But I have a serious problem with lies--esp. with lies like these that are intended to make the general secular American public look evil enough to change public school legislation. Unless I am seriously mistaken, the lies in that email are far weightier reasons not to pass it on than any self-inflicted shame.

The uncomfortable feeling a person gets at the thought of passing on that kind of email is probably common sense telling them how inappropriate it is to fill up people's inbox with harmful political propaganda. Or just with spam. So don't do it. END OF RESPONSE

The other person replies that this is the martyr mentality. I guess that makes sense. They convince themselves that they are doing something noble that most people wouldn't do because most people would be ashamed of it. That makes them martyrs. And in order to be martyrs, there has to be persecution. Since there is no real persecution--and cannot be in a land dominated by Christianity, they invent situations that provoke people against them, such as being obnoxious with pushing their religion and spamming people's inboxes beyond endurance. Then when people like me confront them about their false sense of shame they are sure they are being persecuted. So be it.

_________________
~RSM
P.S. I do my own thinking.
visit our Website
Website includes resources for deconversion & links to secular groups.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jan 26, 2008 12:49 am 
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Site Admin

Joined: May 09, 2007 1:53 pm
Posts: 928
Location: Ontario
It is not surprising that this student believed shame might be the issue. Shame is perhaps Christianity's most powerful tool--guilty shame, or shameful guilt.

One of Christianity's most powerful tools is guilt. Its twin is shame. Guilt for having committed sin. Shame for being unworthy. Roll the two into one and you get unworthy sinner. What do they force new converts to confess? "I am a sinner saved through the shed blood of Christ" or something to that effect.

1. Sin is intentionally doing that which we know is wrong.

COMMENT: Who does that? Nobody that I know of. Some people do it out of rebellion or some other dysfunction. When we get rid of all the dysfunctions we get outstanding behaviour. In other words, humans are good deep down if only love can connect with that good.

2. With the belief that one is a sinner the stage is set for shame.

COMMENT: This is where religion wants its members. They are vulnerable and easily manipulated. They will do anything to get rid of the guilt and shame, whether real or imagined. I hold that it is imagined.

QUOTE: Shame is the uncomfortable or painful feeling that we experience when we realize that a part of us is defective, bad, incomplete, rotten, phoney, inadequate or a failure. In contrast to guilt, where we feel bad from doing something wrong, we feel shame from being something wrong or bad. Thus guilt seems to be correctible or forgiveable, whereas there seems to be no way out of shame. -Charles L. Whitfield in Healing the Child Within, 1987, p. 44.

The most powerful anti-dote for the guilt-shame complex I know is to learn who one is and to learn to be happy with oneself. To find out who you are, start by figuring out your likes and dislikes, and by listing the pros and cons of these. Embrace the pros. I think you will grow into the kind of person you want to be, the kind of person the Bible tells us to be. And it will be relatively painless and fast. But don't try to be a good example; just try to be you. When we are happy and content with the way we were born to be there is little that can touch us. We will even learn to forgive ourselves as we forgive others.

_________________
~RSM
P.S. I do my own thinking.
visit our Website
Website includes resources for deconversion & links to secular groups.


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