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 Post subject: List of Biblical Contradictions
PostPosted: Nov 17, 2007 4:13 pm 
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I found a list of biblical contradictions compiled by Donald Morgan. Morgan says there is a slight difference between inconsistencies and contradictions. According to him, "a contradiction is necessarily an inconsistency, [but] an inconsistency is not necessarily a contradiction. But certainly some of the listed biblical inconsistencies could be taken as biblical contradictions." Morgan also notes that depending on a person's interpretation of the Bible "almost any problem can be eliminated with suitable rationalizations." He also suggests that "a perfect and omnipotent God could, should, and likely would see to it that such problems did not exist in a book which s/he had inspired."

Fundamentalists will have a problem with that. They will say they don't have an "interpretation" of the Bible. But they do. There are many ways of understanding the Bible. And "understanding" the Bible IS interpreting it. Thus, whether it's inconsistencies or contradictions, a perfect God should be able to prevent either. Humans should not have to rationalize them away like this. For more about this article see this post. For more articles by Morgan see his Introduction to the Bible and Biblical Problems. I wrote a post about it in Lab Tools.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Nov 17, 2007 6:48 pm 
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Feel free to comment.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul 16, 2008 12:24 am 
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Just now I found an interesting piece of work on "New Testament Verses Which Demand Following the Old Testament and Law Contradictions." Here is part of the introduction:

Quote:
I hear so many Christians now a days claim that the Old Testament is defunct for Jesus was the “lamb” to clear away its rules and regulations....I am so tired of Christians manipulating the scriptures so that they can assign a kinder nature to their God, that I have assembled a BRIEF list of verses which clearly show that the Old Testament is not to be ignored. Its laws should indeed be adhered to, for the New Testament demands it! After this section I shall list where the Bible contradicts itself concerning other laws.

FROM: “Thou Shall Not Ignore the Old Testament!”



If you don't believe the claim click on the link (underlined title in quote box is live link and takes you to the list), pull out a Bible, and check things out for yourself. Free online Bibles in a number of different languages and English versions can be found at crosswalk.com.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul 18, 2008 5:49 am 
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Let's look at how Jesus viewed the OT. To Him it was divinely inspired, the Word of God (Matthew 15:3). He indicated that it was indestructible: ‘Until Heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law, until all is accomplished’ (Matthew 5:1.

I think it is clear that the author of this article has 'heard' from Christians who are not 'listening' to Jesus.


Marti


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul 18, 2008 3:05 pm 
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I don't know what you mean by "heard" and "listening." Matt. 5:1 obligates you to stone any son or daughter of yours who talks back to you. So I have been told. I have not read the Law of Moses. Do you, or are you willing to, do that? If so, I will have to report you to the civil authorities. However, a prison sentence for life would be a small price to pay in return for an eternity in heaven. So teaches Christianity.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul 18, 2008 5:58 pm 
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Matthew 5:1???


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul 18, 2008 9:52 pm 
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Sorry, got the wrong verse there--numbers muddled in my brain. I meant the verse you listed....Matthew 15:3.

  • Matt. 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Here are the OT passages to which it refers:

  • Exodus 21:15, 17 15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death. 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
  • Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
  • Deuteronomy 21:18-2118 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19 Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21 And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.


Will you obey your Holy Bible and spend life in prison (or submit to capital punishment depending in what part of the world you live) but gain entrance to Heaven after death, OR will you risk eternity in hell for the physical welfare and happiness of yourself and your children on this earth?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Jul 19, 2008 1:00 pm 
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Supposing you want above all to obey the Bible, and supposing you decide that the New Testament holds the key to eternal life, how do you decide whether to obey Jesus or Paul?

As shown, Jesus says to obey the Old Testament, which commands you to kill you son or daughter for disobedience and disrespect. That conflicts directly with today's civil law in most parts of the world regarding child rearing and inter-personal relationships. Not to mention that it conflicts with an important part of the Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not commit murder. So if you're going to follow Jesus and obey the OT, you will have to decide which part of the OT you will follow because you can't follow all of it.

Here is what Paul says in Romans 13 about obedience to civil government:

    Romans 13:1-6 1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.  2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: 4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. 5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. 6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God’s ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.


The "higher powers" here refer to civil government, probably the Roman Emperor at the time of writing. We know Paul is referring to the civil government and not to spiritual powers (as he does in other places) because he says in Verse 3 "rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil," and in Verse 4 he describes how the government punishes offenders of the law.

In the 20th century, many conscientious objectors throughout the world suffered various degrees of punishment for the civil disobedience of refusing to participate in the wars world leaders were fighting. In some of those wars, both sides of the war were Christian. Christian fought Christian. Both sides trusted God was on their own side. The Bible says to "beat your swords into plough shares" and "Thou shalt not kill." It also says to obey civil government. When your president or prime minister says: Enlist! who are you to obey?

The Bible that says to beat your swords into? Or the Bible that says to obey your government?

Indeed, Paul is of little help. In Verse 7 he says to "Render therefore to all their dues" etc. but in Verse 9 he turns around and recites many of the Ten Commandments, among them: Thou shalt not kill. Paul knew that the Roman Emperor had no conscience against killing anyone he felt needed killing. Paul preached "Christ, and him crucified" (1 Cor. 1:23, 1 Cor. 2:2). Paul knew that the Roman Emperor sanctioned his petty officers to execute crucifixions.

So which is it? Were the Roman Christians, some of whom probably were petty officers responsible for participating in arrests leading to executions (if not in the executions themselves) allowed to keep their jobs or were they not? Others were probably working for the military on some level, or married to a man who was. Or they were the slave of such a household, which provided them with even fewer choices in life. My guess is the lower-downs--possibly slaves--were used for the really dirty work of hammering home the nails of crucifixions. It would have driven home the message on what was in store for them the minute they dared resist authority.

What does this mean for Christians today? Did Paul mean for them to obey the government who said "Kill!" or did he mean for them to obey the Commandment that said "Thou shalt not kill"?

Or will you follow Jesus? How will you decide? Given that most other Christians (today and throughout history) interpret the Bible slightly different from you, how will you know that God agrees with your specific decision? As you quoted, the Word of God will not change until all is fulfilled. This means that it is serious business for you to happen to get it wrong.

Just in case you are about to discount me for making light of you, be informed that I am not making light of these very serious matters. I am simply at the end of my rope. I am desperate to get Christians to listen to me and answer my questions. You always disappear when the questions get difficult. You're so very typical of Christians the world over. I have yet to find Christians who don't either disappear or get disrespectful or say "I don't know" when confronted with these impossible questions.

And yet Christians insist that there is something inherently wrong with those of us who disagree with their religion. What's more, they demand that we conform our lives, our societies, our very laws and institutions to accommodate their fantastic notions of alternative realities--and if we don't we are the most hateful creatures walking the planet and deserve to be burned alive at the stake.

We are excommunicated. We are talked down to. We are dismissed.

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P.S. I do my own thinking.
visit our Website
Website includes resources for deconversion & links to secular groups.


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