Welcome to FFFR Forums, the Foundation for Fighting Fundamentalist Religion! To undermine the power of fundamentalist religion is our aim. Let's pool our knowledge, information, successes, and failures. Make FFFR the central information hub for all "fight-the-fundy" groups throughout the world and across time.

If atheists and agnostics of every type and stripe agree on anything it is this: That the power of fundamentalist religion must be broken. To accomplish this task in lands as predominantly fundamentalist as North America or the Middle East, we need to pool our knowledge, information, successes, and failures--we must unite. In no other way can we make any real difference.

For the time being, this will have to be hosted on free forums, and with it come all the short-comings of free forums. Please be patient; this may change at some point in the future. For the time being...

Welcome and enjoy your stay!

~RSM

Since I got access to the New Forums a few days I can now copy the former plans here. It appears in the New Forums as reposts under the heading Introduction. So I guess here it will be re-reposts. Oh well, genealogy is not important; ideas are. Here goes. This post and the next one are re-reposts

Originally posted May 10, 2007

I see fundamentalist religion as a world problem that requires serious attention. Ever since 9/11 in 2001, the fundamentalist Christians and the fundamentalist Muslims have been locked in a hot shooting-bombing war. That�s six years of terror for the human population. Let's go back further.

Ever since 1914, the West has been at war off and on. World War I. World War II. The Vietnam War. The Gulf War. The War on Terrorism. Not to mention the Cold War. We are seven years short of having had another Hundred Years� War. During this same period of time we have also seen the intense digging-in-of-heels of conservative religion.

The purpose of this forum is to share ideas, strategies, and experiences on dealing with fundamentalist religion on a day to day basis, as well as in the larger arena of politics from the level of the individual to the global situation. Has anyone ever been successful in dealing rationally with a fundamentalist Christian? If so, what do you think you did right, and why do you think so?

What have you tried that didn�t work? Why didn�t it work? As we discuss the things that didn�t work, maybe we�ll hit on an idea that will work. Nothing is lost in trying. There�s a world to be gained. Somehow, I have a hunch that the failures outnumber the successes about a million to one. Yeah, I'm a real pessimist in this.

I think we need a central info station where all the existing "fight-the-fundy" groups throughout the world and across time can share ideas on combating fundamentalist religion. The suggestion was made that I set up a website on a free forum somewhere to get it started. That is what this is. With it come all the short-comings of free forums. Let's be patient. Times may change. This will have to do for now.

Because Christianity is the dominant world religion, as well as the only religion with which I am very familiar, Christian fundamentalism will be the religion of my own focus. If we get specialists of other religions on here, we can also discuss fundamentalism in other religions. Non-specialists can also share experiences and insights regarding whatever fundamentalist religion they know.

Ideally, "specialist" would mean a person who has some formal education in the study of religion. I don't know if other religions have religious studies departments in their schools. Details must be worked through as we encounter them. My own "credentials" include forty years in the horse and buggy Mennonite community into which I was born. It is very similar to the Amish.

I've spent the past ten years acquiring higher education. This includes some study of religion, and a degree in theology, with a focus on fundamentalism. Admittedly, at this point I do not yet have my degree. I've still got a few months' work ahead of me. Most of my spare time in the past two and three-quarter years was spent on various religious forums that included exChristians of various persuasions.

Some belief systems on which I focused informally were paganism, agnosticism, atheism, and humanism. My personal position at this point is probably closest to atheism, thanks to the good atheists I encountered on ExChristian.net.

The main question of my life has been: What makes humans happy? I have yet to encounter a religion or belief system that does not claim a monopoly on human happiness. Being true to my own Self at all costs is what has worked for me. I have reason to believe it is The Answer. I may be totally wrong. That is not the purpose of this forum.

The purpose of this forum, as stated, is to share ideas on how to solve the problem of fundamentalist religion. The only credentials required to participate in this discussion is an interest in this problem. Only serious discussion is expected here. Quality is more important than quantity. Ideally, professionals in the field such as Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, and Dan Barker will take an interest and contribute. That is the level of my vision.

Originally Post May 13.

By the way, the fff in the address comes from the words "fighting the fundies forum." That is the term I used in the post where I addressed setting up this kind of forum. I didn't actually use those words in the name. I think if there is a real need for this kind of forum, then it will be used by serious folks. I don't want serious folk turned off by a slangy name. I kept it for the address, though, well--just because. It's easy to remember. I need something I can remember when I'm not close to my computer.

As I was thinking about names I realized it had to be sufficiently different from Freedom From Religion Foundation. At one point I was using Fighting Fundamentalist Religion Foundation (ffrfoundation). The resemblance is too close. I want to cooperate with them and you don't go stealing the names of people you want to contribute to your cause. Here is their website, in case someone hasn't seen it.

As stated above, one aim of Foundation for Fighting Fundamentalist Religion is to develop a network and information hub. It is a "work in progress," and keeps evolving and changing with changing times and situations. At the moment, there are the website and the forums. The Website serves as the hub because it links easily to the forums and also to the Index of Sources and a few other excellent "Fighters in the Battle." It is the link I carry in my signature on other forums. And if you want to be a "warrior" in this battle, it is the link to carry.

The Index of Sources lists a large variety of sources valuable for fighting fundamentalist religion and finding one's way out of it; it also lists groups, associations, and forums of existing nonreligious groups. As we find more sources the list will grow. If you know of, or find, a really good source please post about it on this forum. Be sure to provide a link to the source so we can check it out. If we decide that it is of the quality we want on the Index of Sources, we will post it there. If you have a blog or website that you think is educational and helpful for others, you may post it on these forums, too, for consideration.

Also, you can post your personal blogs and websites and other links in your signature, though there is a limit of 255 characters. Go to your profile. In the second section, under "Profile Information," you will find the place for your signature.

To post live links you will have to type in the code. For those who don't know the code, here is how to type it:

1. Type the following characters without commas or spaces: [,u,r,l,=

2. After = paste/type the address from address bar on the website where the blog appears. Leave no spaces. each character counts toward the limit.

3. At the end put a square bracket:]

4. Type the word you want to appear as the live link. For example: My Blog.

5. Immediately after My Blog, type the following characters without spaces or commas: [,/,u,r,l,]

Sorry, I had been going to show you how to do it but the code kept disappearing when I hit "preview." That is what it is supposed to. Thus, when you preview your signature you will see that the code (if done exactly right) has disappeared and the live link is there instead. When posting links in the forums, use the same code.

If you have questions about this forum, feel free to post them here. Others probably have the same questions.

The following post was made in the wrong place. In addition, it demonstrates a misunderstanding of our strategies. The original post was deleted. It is reposted here in order to clarify the purpose and strategy of Foundation for Fighting Fundamentalist Religion.



That was originally posted on Dec. 11. Sorry I did not see it till now.

First of all, Marlene Winnel is not connected with Foundation for Fighting Fundamentalist Religion, though we do list her website and some of her activities for interested parties. Secondly, you seem to have picked up a wrong impression as to our strategy. We do not fight with bombs or other weapons. We aim to inform the brain and convince the heart. No, I do not think Christians are evil per se and I am not happy that anyone got killed. I did not hear about this particular case, nor did I see Winnel on CNN. I cannot speak for anyone but myself on this.

Part of a larger discussion about People Just Don't Seem To Care About Christian Nationalists.

I don't know if I can respond appropriately. This is why I started Foundation for Fighting Fundamentalist Religion (sig). I didn't know Christian Nationalists was the name for this brand of humanity. So long as I thought it was only the conservative Amish and Mennonites who had this "quiverful" ideology (that somehow breeds a whole lot of other stuff along with kids to keep the ideology alive for untold infinities), I had hope for humanity. Then I got onto the internet and online forums and saw that this attitude was alive and well among far larger populations--among people who would not hesitate to take up arms and act out the ideology.

This is Militant Religion.

Okay, just now I typed the words "militant religion" into Google. Here is one of the results: The Meek and the Militant: Religion and Power Across the World, by Paul N. Siegel. From Editoral Reviews: "the impact of religion on politics, whether Islam in the Middle East or right-wing Christian fundamentalism in North America."

For some people words like "fighting" and "militant" are too strong. Fine. I don't use bombs and canons. Better methods need be found than weapons of mass destruction. However, education isn't working either. Regardless of what all lacks the public education systems of the West, the past two centuries in Western countries have seen the best education on mass scale ever known in human history.

What have we done with that education? Major efforts over the past century have gone into learning how more effectively to kill each other off. It started in 1914. We're still at it. Oh, by the way, at the same time we also learned how to save lives and we've become really good at it. On paper, one sort of cancels the other out. EDUCATION IS NOT WORKING.

Fight with words, not your fists, we are told. IT'S NOT WORKING!!!! Nor are weapons of mass destruction working. Better means need to be found. But WHAT???

Maybe I'm wrong but I think that's part of what this thread is about. AKR, I'm glad to see somebody cares.

LOVE

Edited by RSM to show quote. Please use quote option to clarify who says what.~RSM

Uh, yes, I presume that love is the underlying motivation that everyone presupposes when fighting malevolent forces. However, I would hope that you don't deceive yourself into thinking that your behaviour on these forums is somehow mistaken for LOVE.

1. You ignore basic online etiquette. (I know you know better because you were good at first.)
2. You seldom finish conversations and often leave me hanging with genuine questions. (This has got to be one of the cruelest tortures known to humanity.)
3. You nitpick at my arguments but never produce arguments of your own supported with evidence to justify your presence--that is just being a nuisance.
4. You claim to be a scientist but fail to produce convincing evidence, and you never participate in scientific debate. Your writing does not at all look like that of a scholar. This opens you up to suspicion of false claims.

You're the typical Christian. Put two billion of you on the planet and we've got a problem--and not just a small one. Something more potent than bland, passive LOVE is needed to root it out. Can't just turn the other cheek. Been doing that for several thousand years. IT IS NOT WORKING!

Marti, I have now posted a thread on Technical Support. No more excuses for sloppy posting. If you don't know how to do something, ask.

You quoted my post inside your own and you did not indicate that it was not your own words. (As indicated I edited it clarify.) That is plagiarism and illegal. For your own good, read at the very least the first two paragraphs of the article I linked. It outlines the law as it stands in the United States. Similar laws apply throughout the rest of the world.

You should know that "ignorance of the law is no excuse."